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Good , well thought out reply Copper Hog. Looking forward to hearing from you regarding your upcoming projects!!
8:03 PM
Heres my point of view
The 1250 are slightly large, id use 600's or 800's on that building but if i had the 1250 and was doing a job out of state id bring them there. Especially if id save burning and pulling time on thicker steel with a huge shear. (testas shears are rediculously awesome , I wouldnt be surprised if their big shear could cut 5 inch flange thickness. I mean fuck it, testa owns the trucks to haul it in pieces. Not only that but taking buildings down with large iron looks good, its the american way and is great advertisement. Maybe steve testa had his other iron busy, maybe he was trying to make an impression on a first time out of state customer. Who knows and who cares because i know for a fact that he must have worked his ass off to warant having that iron which means he can call his own shots for his own reasons. Also the 1250 does 4x the structural damage with each swipe they just arent good at sorting and loading. demo osha comment guy is wrong about pretty much everything except the fact that the operator did take an unsafe chance. This likely happened because rather than putting the extended boom and a shear on to handle one tall section they took a chance taking it . They were being unsafe but i truly believe they did not break any WRITTEN osha rules. The operator should have either cleared the pile of rubble below which acted as a trampoline for the penthouse rolling forward or he should have tracked around and pushed it. If thing went a little differently that 1250 would be twisted rubble itself, he got lucky. Teta should have ducati edit the "near miss" out as some customers remove subs for near misses. I understand it is easy to get caught up in dropping the building and to overlook something small like the rubble ramp, ive been there. all the operator can do is learn what he already knew to look for potential hazards. People make mistakes , operating the 1250 is high stress and requires experience because of controlling the swing and weight. The operator is a pro that made a mistake it is obvious he belongs in the machine. The demo video artist is awsome too ill be calling him soon i have a few bigger buildings than hartford coming up. Good song, good angels, good portrayal of the grandure and hard grit that is a demo site in all your videos. I like the gramery giants stadium, and testa linden videos too.Sometimes filming demo is hard because the equipment is so big the building starts to shrink in photos but you do a good job getting low with the shots to show the size of the buildings and the machines. Nice work. the guy mike should thank god the building didt finish that leftward roll because his boss would have hung him if he totalled a brand new 1250 high reach.lol. good skills running it otherwise!
Copper Hog
I agree the demolitionforum is just that - so we can debate. If we were name calling and being disrespectful I can see ending that, but everyone was great. I wish we could set up a meeting at the next demolition convention and just get to put the faces with the names.
I joined this forum for discussions like this. I thought everyone was being respectful and I have all the respect for Demoman he made me think and what's great. Whats great about DemoPhotographer posting his work here is we can dissect his work and actually see what we are talking about. I wish he would post more of his work because of the directions the threads take. We discussed OSHA compared machines and was about to talk about bidding what more could you ask for a thread. Demoman please keep making me think and DemoPhotographer please keep posting your work so it will give us something to debate.
I was thinking the same thing "move on already" but the debate has been interesting and I think Demoman has some valid points. We have three PC600 Komatsu's with third member Shears. I have been arguing for a bigger machine but the cost of one of the 1250's or a UHD machine is hard for us to justify. We do alot of heavy Industrial work and our 6's do just fine. A 1250 is a luxury to have and you better have enough big work to keep them busy. If not it will be harder to be competitive on some smaller to mid sized projects with the higher mobe cost and higher operating costs. Don't misunderstand me if Santa was to leave me one under the Christmas tree I wouldn't return it.
Wolf;12271 said:
Enough, gentlemen.Let's get back to praising the fine operators who did this impressive job, and the excellent and very talented cameraman who got out there at all the right moments to catch the highlights in videos and impressive still photos that we can all enjoy.
Hear!! Hear!! I'm glad everyone has 'enjoyed' my work.
What I am merely trying to do is share the history of the world we live in by documenting the demolition process through still photos and moving images.
The way I see life through the viewfinder allows me to show a part of life most people don't even have the faintest idea even exists.
Having the opportunity to work with various demolition and construction firms I enjoy sharing my 'everyday' life thru pictures. By showcasing the talents of heavy equipment operators, burners, mechanics, truck drivers, laborers and the foremen in the field I capture what may be their typical day, but to the rest of us it is nothing short of remarkable.
In a business as 'aggressive' as demolition it takes a certain definitive mindset to be the type of kid in the playground that wrecks buildings rather than design or build them.
With this aggressive attitude its only logical for 'opinions' to be formed no matter what type of video I put out there.
It seems more often than not on demoltionforum that everyone has a 'better' or 'different' way of doing things and thats understandable.
Just once though, it would be nice, if we could have a conversation of a civilized culture rather than a pissing match of junkyard dogs.
I would imagine that when Testa puts their numbers together they include that into the cost of the job plus I'm sure they have a certain profit margin on every job. If I could afford to have a machine of that size I would have one who doesn't like overkill its like having a D11 with a root rake to do a land clearing job. That would be awesome to just walk through Big Pine Stumps instead of using a D7 or D8, but I do agree with Demoman we are all in it to win it and in this economy I would rather have a fat wallet then all my money tied up in million dollar machine not to mention I can't imagine what the under carriage or pumps on those machine cost to replace, but they are sure awesome to watch just the shear size of them is very impressive and that video was awesome!!
6:57 AM
Enough, gentlemen.
Let's get back to praising the fine operators who did this impressive job, and the excellent and very talented cameraman who got out there at all the right moments to catch the highlights in videos and impressive still photos that we can all enjoy.
We can debate this issue for ever - but I will tell you this we bid at least 5 - 500,000 SF or greater projects per month. For example in this industry if you want to do $10 million you have to bid $100 million worth of work thats $8.5 million per month. You and I know the average size of most demos is between $350,000 - $700,000 - thats around 17 projects in a 30 day month.
Back to the 345 vs 1250 debate - I explained where I thought the advantages were. I explained that we have used these monster machines with shears and hammers, but just because NASDI, Nacerima, and Mazzochi own those machines doesn't make it prudent business - remember the Edsel and Studebaker. Yes the 1250 is more productive but it has to be 3 times more productive for the price its like E85 fuel - yes its $2.09 per gallon buts its 25% less effecient in my Tahoe. So if it is 26% less then regular gas it makes sense to me to put it in my flex fuel system.
Listen I agree at times the 1250 is overkill and the 345 is a great machine and you can do a lot with it. Deamonman you throw out all these numbers which sound good on paper but sometimes they really do equate in the field. I have been wrecking with a 1250 for the past 6 months and I have wrecked with a 345 for years and the 45 will get the job done but you get so much more done with the 1250. Anybody can drop a building to the ground but the key is to do it safe and without making a big mess as you know and its a lot easier doing it with a bigger machine. Testa is not the only company who uses big machines to wreck nasdi nacirema and mazzocchi all use big machines as well.
You really think Testa moves these machines just for bragging rights? Could you use a 100,000lb machine on this job sure you could, could you use 45,000lb machines as support machines yes you can. I feel Testa is a serious Demolition company and they have people working there that know a lot more than me. Just owning PC1250s is impressive to me. If a 400,000sqft doesn't justify using one then i guess there isn't a place for it. But then again how many 500,000 sqft jobs do you really bid a month
Part of my responsibilities are to make sure that everyone of my men and women go home safe to their families everynight. Safety in general is very easy to overlook and especially in this business. When I give safety talks I compare it to beer goggles. When guys are in an excavator they think they are invinceable - but from the safety committees that I sit on, it is all to sad to say that they are not. I have seen guys killed when portions of buildings have crushed the excavator cab, when debris piles have collasped and operators have rolled, etc. My comments were not a slap at Testa, they have had there share of OSHA up theirs with a microscope. What I was saying was that Testa instead of thinking all press is great press - watch what they release. I have seen OSHA look at photos in a newspaper where guys weren't wearing harnesses and show up the next day on-site and site them for it.
What Testa's operator was doing was un-safe and wrecking is a top-down process - simple fact is he was lucky and skilled. I say a prayer every night for my crew and all my competitions crew to come home safe. Reason being that when guys in this industry are hurt or killed - it raises our insurance premiums as well.
Detroitwrecker and if you think it is right - pray. Pray that you never have to sit in a job trailer and get debriefed by an OSHA investigator. Because I have. After thats over with, the wife or girlfriend usually shows up wondering why John didn't get home for dinner, believe me that conversation with OSHA is nothing compared to one you have to make to loved ones especially if kids are involved.
Take a deep breath and hang in there demoman....I am waiting with great anticipation for you response.....:spinningsmile:
Nice work!!! And once again great coverage by Demophotographer!!! Thanks again!!! Oh and..... Demoman518... That comment is B.S. if you know what you are doing... you will be fine. I am sure the guys at that company are well aware as to who they put in the seat. And who is calling OSHA out anyway? Anyway, looks like a nice organized job and that is the way to do it.
????????????That would make sense if the 345's and 1250's had the same sticker price - but there again the 1250 is almost 3 times the price as the 100,000 lb machine. Not to mention hours on a concrete wrecking job are taking just as much or more of a toll on the heavier machine - track & under-carraige wear will kill either machine if they are used long enough.
The monsters (200,000 lb) machines were created for the quarry industry. They have a power advantage from 10' above the cab and 20' below the tracks.
Demoman, I dont know the answer to this, but couldnt one factor in that the 345's will be getting tired in five years from working them hard and the 1250's just getting broken in ?
Just took down 424,000 SF of a 4 story industrial building. Foot print was 106,000 SF. It had spiral wrapped mushroom columns every 30'. Slabs ranged from 8" on top and 18" on ground. Slabs had #1 bar every 4" OC. We used 3 - 345 D w/concrete pulverisers and had it down to grade in 6 weeks.
So for arguments sake lets say the PC-1250 is 3 times the machine (because to justify the overwhelming expense between mobilization and operating costs). That means you would take down 424,000 SF in two weeks - 10 working days - 42,400 Sf per day - 14,133 Sf per machine - 1,766 SF per hr?
I would rather have a fat wallet then a puffed out chest because isn't that what we are in business for?
demoman do you really feel that a 345D will have same production as a PC1250 on a 400,000 sqft structure built in the 20's. I am sorry but i feel there is no comparison if i had them sitting in my yard i would attack the job the same way. I would like to see a picture with a 325 sitting beside that penthouse that rolled close by, and the operator did a great job of backing up and protecting himself and the machine with the stick. I just guess i am old school i was always told get the biggest machine you can within reason and i believe the PC1250 is within reason
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